World Boss Discussion

Bane

Disciple
External Player
Good evening.

As most of you know, recently the World Bosses have been quite the popular subject at matter, and have been discussed both by us (Staff) and all of the playerbase.
Certain players and even a guild has shown how much they disliked the current format of World Bosses and ended up leaving the server due to it.


We want to make the changes that might be needed to make
, we have discussed alternatives and brainstormed about what could and could not be beneficial and what most people would agree on.

Now before I open up this discussion I want to touch on certain aspects, and those aspects being:

  • Allegations that higher level players and bigger guilds have an easier access to killing the world bosses than other guilds have, which is obviously bound to happen.
  • World Bosses dropping coins, which was not part of 1.3.6, but we implemented it as a replacement for the OHT materials they originally dropped that have no use on our server.
  • The amount of coins the World Bosses were dropping.
  • Do they incentivize guild play or are they too easy to kill that a level 90 squad can solo them in under one hour, therefore the number of World Bosses should be reduced.
  • Reducing the number of World Bosses so it incentivizes PvP in around them and hopefully not just the same people getting those rewards every week.

Taking most of those point into account, we'd love to hear what your opinions and suggestions on it are, as unbiased as possible, and as fair as you possibly can.
We will take every suggestion into account and eventually try to find common ground between everyone and hopefully make the right decision about it.

Until then, the 2 World Boss that @Sushi posted for v49 update will be on hold.

Please be civil and respectful.

Thank you.
 

ante2805

Disciple
External Player
Good Evening Bane,

I think that you should not remove WBs and leave only 2 of them, but to remove chest of coins they drop...Perfect shards, rep and mirages are still good rewards, and having more WBs ensures that more guilds could take part in it.

Thanks for reading.
 

Laniari

Novice
External Player
Discord
Laniari
On note of chest of coins, we killed a world boss yesterday and got ZERO chest of coins. The guild that complained had a VERY LUCKY drop only...
 

Sekhmet

Novice
External Player
I would prefer that it NOT be reduced down to just 2 world bosses....obviously everyone wants to get goodies, and have a chance at doing so. I don't have much of an opinion on what the rewards are...I just wanna kill 'em!
 

Ptah

Novice
External Player
As a player that really doesn't care about the pvp aspects of the game, this really doesn't concern me much. The only input I would throw in is that since we are trying to have a "old school" PW experience then we should keep the server as pure as possible. The world bosses had to be fought different ways so limiting them to 2 would limit the different classes that would enjoy the fight. As far as the added loot, it makes sense to take out the oht mats as there is no oht. Replacing them with something simple like coin was fine IMO. It will always be rough trying to get the "masses" to believe that a member of the staffs guild doesn't get preferential treatment, so many will think the limit is just to allow his guild to dominate the WB mats. I personally would like to leave them all in so when my kitten gets bigger I might be able to farm a few. As I said however, as a player that cares nothing for the pvp side, including TW and silly grudge killing, my opinion is not that of the average player. In summary, keep external pure, let people earn their gear and coin, and always, ALWAYS random buff those fluffy kitties,

Looking forward to the outcome,
Ptah
 

Ascii

Disciple
External Player
Discord
Ascii#8327
Class
Cleric
Name
Ascii
I'll start by saying i don't understand why world bosses drops was buffed after the reworked drops to begin with, it made no sense.

The problem i see here (at least with the reasoning of only a small group of people can do and control and deny it) is where do you draw the line? classic PW has always had the "if your further ahead you benefit more" mentality especially if groups banded together, to the point you could literally deny people levelling cultivation if you wanted too. The logic being applied to nurfing and removing world bosses for this reason can be applied to other farmable aspects that require more then 1 person:

• PvP Tournament can be controlled by groups of higher levels, denying low or non-guild the huge exp and tags, do you change that?
• City of Abominations can be controlled by groups of higher levels to always ensure they get the the event ring, do you change that?
• Dragon Temple can be controlled by groups of higher levels to always farm legendary pet books and the event necklace, do you change that?
• Id say even Territory Wars can be controlled by groups of higher levels, determining how lands are split and attacked by other lesser guilds, do you change that?

I believe its wrong to change an aspect of the game because one group or guild has control over certain elements and others complain rather then take action, its always how the game has been. The real issue here is there is no real competition or answer from the server over said groups controlling these game aspects, so it shouldn't be for the GMs to decide to change it because of that, its for the server to either band together to have a bigger impact or for the server, become more popular so the competition increases or to wait for the group to fail. There was always going to be one dominating group or guild that rises up due to their coordination and efficiency, it happened in 2009 classic and it happens now. Even in 2012 grade 9 gems gave a massive advantage to the people who farmed them (remember these are 22.9m NPC cost to craft each) so its only the coin thats new here.

I do believe the economical impact of coins from World Bosses can be felt, in cash-flow and in gold listings which is why i believe if action is to be taken, the best course of action would be to remove coins and mirages from World Bosses and replace them with something equally as beneficial and desirable to the bracket that would be doing WBs but not have a hard cash figure. My suggestion would be skill-books and skill pages of sorts. With the inclusion of pages from the mysterious chips vendor it will generate more skills coming into the game for all, so adding additional books or pages would not affect the server nearly as much and would still be a cause to fight over for the 80-105s of the server.

Edit: I also think that tiering the World Bosses by easiest to hardest and adjusting the rewards accordingly could be another approach to keep coin drops but also introduce more drops desirable to others.
 
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Shay

Disciple
External Player
It is unfortunate that some guilds farm the WB's and everyone else is left out. This makes it so hard for anyone new, players or guilds to ever compete with those who have the ability to farm these. So in my experience with pw this kind of selfish behavior always ruins the game for anyone new. Would be nice to have some WB's in a cave restricted by levels. Just a thought, probably not doable. But carry on....
 

Ascii

Disciple
External Player
Discord
Ascii#8327
Class
Cleric
Name
Ascii
Doesn't that defeat the point of open world high-reward objectives? Whats the motivation for restrictions or removing them? Its just asking for handouts because you cant level or group up to challenge them, asking for the game to be altered to assist your level speed and bracket and to deny it to the ones who have levelled and geared exactly for this content.

The clear motivation for having them as they are is to level and group up so you can be at a point were you can do them or contest them. Yes a group has a monopoly on them now, but that will change and there's only so much that group can do now at endgame in terms of further gear progression and becoming stronger, the server will catch them up eventually and they will be contested, but that's down to the server players to deal with, not the GMs to interfere with. If this server is to survive the long term, it has to plan for the long term, not adjusting everything weekly/ monthly because people complain about high end content.
 

Sushi

GM
Staff member
Game Master
Server booster
External Player
Discord
Sushi#3688
Class
Venomancer
Name
Sushi
So far, we are forced to reduce the number of world bosses, due to the absence of any competition on them.
It will be easier for players to concentrate on two bosses and easier to track them.
Also, there will be a notification in the chat about the appearance of the World Boss


The most important thing is that players must fight for WBs, and not kill them one after another with one squad
Most likely, over time, we will return the rest of WBs when there will be a competition on it between factions
 

Ascii

Disciple
External Player
Discord
Ascii#8327
Class
Cleric
Name
Ascii
You are not forced to do anything (except maybe by server peer pressure or other hidden agendas) lack of competition is a community issue, not a game issue. You will be punishing your high end player base who have put in the time and effort to be able to kill these because your lower end is complaining about it.
 

Sushi

GM
Staff member
Game Master
Server booster
External Player
Discord
Sushi#3688
Class
Venomancer
Name
Sushi
You will be punishing your high end player base who have put in the time and effort to be able to kill these because your lower end is complaining about it.
Please understand that this is not some kind of punishment.
Also, this has nothing to do with donations.

This is just a temporary measure until a competition appears between the factions or the bosses are reworked.
The topic will remain open for discussion.
 
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ante2805

Disciple
External Player
You asked us for opinion, and majority of people who posted here were against reducing number of world bosses, and yet it was reduced...No need to bother making a thread if it wont have any impact on your decisions. I really enjoy playing on this server, and i want this server to grow with all my heart,and I dont want more people to leave.

Thanks for reading.
 

Ascii

Disciple
External Player
Discord
Ascii#8327
Class
Cleric
Name
Ascii
Punishing may not have been your intention, but that's exactly how i and i'm sure others are looking at it. I'm being punished because i levelled quickly and content is being taken away from me because of it. I put in the hours to get to this point and now that point don't exist. I was really looking forward to a server first Sonic Oppressor and Cerberean Sentinel.

Out of all the World Bosses you left two up that cant be done by under 90s, when people realise this they wont even bother attempting it and the whole point of this change will be nullified. Your also hedging your bets on factions becoming competitive, which shows no sign of happening in the current format due to population. More work needs to be done on actually promoting the server to potential new players.
 

MonstreKu

Novice
External Player
Buenos días, lo primero que diré es pedir disculpas por el idioma, me gustaría que usarás traductor para poder leer mi opinión.

En vista a lo que ocurre primero la queja de Insanos... De los cuales algunos son conocidos y me pareció una queja absurda como bien dige, lo mismo opino de todas las quejas... Siempre el jugador que le dedica más tiempo estará más avanzado del que no, la facción donde tenga más personas podrá hacer más "eventos" que las que tienen menos, pero al final todo se acaba igualando, si ahora un grupo de jugadores consigue matar WB, con el tiempo habrá más jugadores... Ir a TT, es para todos igual, las misiones son para todos igual y fc también es para todos igual.... Por lo que las quejas las veo de mal perdedor sin querer ofender a nadie. Apenas llevo 2 semanas jugando, el servidor es bueno, dejarlo crecer tal y como estaba. Menos quejas y más jugar. ??
 

steve

Disciple
Server booster
External Player
Discord
steve#5530
Class
Archer
Name
steve
I'll start by saying i don't understand why world bosses drops was buffed after the reworked drops to begin with, it made no sense.

The problem i see here (at least with the reasoning of only a small group of people can do and control and deny it) is where do you draw the line? classic PW has always had the "if your further ahead you benefit more" mentality especially if groups banded together, to the point you could literally deny people levelling cultivation if you wanted too. The logic being applied to nurfing and removing world bosses for this reason can be applied to other farmable aspects that require more then 1 person:

• PvP Tournament can be controlled by groups of higher levels, denying low or non-guild the huge exp and tags, do you change that?
• City of Abominations can be controlled by groups of higher levels to always ensure they get the the event ring, do you change that?
• Dragon Temple can be controlled by groups of higher levels to always farm legendary pet books and the event necklace, do you change that?
• Id say even Territory Wars can be controlled by groups of higher levels, determining how lands are split and attacked by other lesser guilds, do you change that?

I believe its wrong to change an aspect of the game because one group or guild has control over certain elements and others complain rather then take action, its always how the game has been. The real issue here is there is no real competition or answer from the server over said groups controlling these game aspects, so it shouldn't be for the GMs to decide to change it because of that, its for the server to either band together to have a bigger impact or for the server, become more popular so the competition increases or to wait for the group to fail. There was always going to be one dominating group or guild that rises up due to their coordination and efficiency, it happened in 2009 classic and it happens now. Even in 2012 grade 9 gems gave a massive advantage to the people who farmed them (remember these are 22.9m NPC cost to craft each) so its only the coin thats new here.

I do believe the economical impact of coins from World Bosses can be felt, in cash-flow and in gold listings which is why i believe if action is to be taken, the best course of action would be to remove coins and mirages from World Bosses and replace them with something equally as beneficial and desirable to the bracket that would be doing WBs but not have a hard cash figure. My suggestion would be skill-books and skill pages of sorts. With the inclusion of pages from the mysterious chips vendor it will generate more skills coming into the game for all, so adding additional books or pages would not affect the server nearly as much and would still be a cause to fight over for the 80-105s of the server.

Edit: I also think that tiering the World Bosses by easiest to hardest and adjusting the rewards accordingly could be another approach to keep coin drops but also introduce more drops desirable to others.

Ascii is 100% spot on here, however I'd like to add:

-Adding only two world bosses creates an unfairness between Classes. Different classes specialize best with different World Bosses. How do you choose which ones to keep and which to leave out?

-Adding only two world bosses means Defiant will get 2/2 bosses probably every single week. In this moment, if we are contested, we do not have competition in PvP. This will not help other factions who will want a World Boss because if they reduce to 2, we will be going for them.... This will additionally create an imbalance of the server, because other guilds such as Paradise and Infamous have been doing them, and this will deny them. 2 World Bosses is not enough to go around 3+ guilds.

-Adding only two World Bosses means that the very guild who literally makes it their Job to reset World Bosses and agitate guilds every single week [Spartiate] will have a much easier time doing it, if its just two bosses. Paradise if I may say so myself have been doing things in a good way and with good intentions only for their boss to constantly get reset by this guild. Reducing the bosses to 2 slows down their guilds progression because instances of this will quite clearly increase.

In wake of everything that has happened, rather than making these kind of changes - My solution would be driving more hungry players to join the server and not make drastic changes to the game that affects those already inside.

I can only see these changes reducing/ slowing down the growth of the server. This seems to me, to be created as a direct overreaction over a group of players who used this subject as an excuse for leaving the server, Lets have a proper think about this...
 
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Sekhmet

Novice
External Player
Seems it's too late now, the patch was applied overnight - even though the discussion thread said it would be "on hold". And, apparently every single person who took the time to write out lengthy explanations of why they did not want the change obviously meant NOTHING. Not a single player voiced an opinion which WANTED the change and the bosses removed, but whatever. I know this has changed MY view of this server now. Not because of this specific issue, but because clearly the opinion of the player base has no value.
 

Sushi

GM
Staff member
Game Master
Server booster
External Player
Discord
Sushi#3688
Class
Venomancer
Name
Sushi
You asked us for opinion, and majority of people who posted here were against reducing number of world bosses, and yet it was reduced...No need to bother making a thread if it wont have any impact on your decisions.
Seems it's too late now, the patch was applied overnight
This is just a temporary measure until we find a mid-term with community
 

Ptah

Novice
External Player
Sad part of this is that it was an "open for discussion" and every post was against reducing the WB population, even the ones that were removed, and it is still reduced. As far as it having nothing to do with donations, that might be incorrect on a different level, several of the "legacy" players I am friends with have said they won't be staying if this sort of "token player involvement" continues. These are players that throw money at whatever private server they are enjoying most. As for me, I will stick around as long as my core group wants to, however, I can't justify donating to a server that says they will listen and then does the opposite of what people posted. If there were private discussions with other players on the topic then it isn't really an "open discussion" now is it. Hate to see a descent idea like a real old school server get abandoned by the population, but from the discussions I'm seeing in the multiple discords I've joined over the years that is where its heading
 

Sekhmet

Novice
External Player
I am in love with this server, so many things here - that I had not even realized I was missing about the early game over the years. I want External to be HUGE....I'd love that. I bopped several friends over the head and dragged them here with me. I've been having more fun here than I have on any other server in years...esp retail. It's such a wonderful version of our favorite game, and I don't wanna go back to what was available before.
 
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